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welcome to the hidden truth show podcast

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I'm Jim Breslow we're doing a deep dive

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into the transgender movement which are

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about to see is an interview that I did

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with Aidan Olsen Kennedy he is the

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executive director of the Los Angeles

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gender clinic he is a transgender man

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married to a woman and the stepfather to

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her child it's a far ranging discussion

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that I think you'll enjoy check it out

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and if you want to hear the rest of the

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podcast

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place to come from because we actually

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don't look for causation for things that

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we generally celebrate and that we don't

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have negative feelings about we look for

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causation of homosexuality but we did

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not look for causation of

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heterosexuality we look for causation

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for trans experience but we don't look

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for causation for for cisgender

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experience and so I think that even the

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starting point the premise there's a lot

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of just to be critical of that starting

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point that what we kind of universally

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actually do know is that gender identity

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as an experience lives in the brain and

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that if we I'm not saying that there's

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transfers who haven't experienced trauma

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sadly unfortunately far too many of the

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experience trauma but if trauma in and

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of itself was a predicting factor for

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trans experience our numbers of trans

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people would be way way higher because

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we know that roughly one in three women

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experienced significant sexual trauma

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and that doesn't translate to the

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numbers of trans folks in LA it's

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estimated based on the Williams

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Institute

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there's conservatively conservatively

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probably about 175,000 trans adults and

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somewhere around 26,000 trans youth

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under the age of 18 if it was trauma

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based those numbers would be so much

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higher are there is there coincidence of

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trans folks and LGB folks in general who

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experienced trauma sure but it's not

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causation well so but you're saying that

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pretty definitively I mean so if you as

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you sit here today what's the cause of

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gender dysphoria and ultimately

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transgenderism

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well it's an in congruence of gender

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identity and gender experience right but

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but your congruence as a cisgender

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person

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is that your assigned sex does match

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your internal sense of gender identity

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mine as a trans person did not that

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there's no root of trauma that is around

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that anymore than trauma if you will

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caused your gender identity gender

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identity is an innate experience just

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like but what is the cause of our gender

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identity it lives in our brain we don't

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we don't know the cause of either

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cisgender or transgender no that's what

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I'm gonna agree with you on that bottom

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line is we don't know but we but we do

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know with a lot of research and a lot of

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data we actually have a lot of clarity

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that there's no evidence the point that

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it is trauma related so the absence of

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evidence doesn't mean that it does exist

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yeah no look I'm over the mind that we

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don't know and most experts would say

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it's probably some combination of nature

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and nurture what experts just generally

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speaking I'm not gonna say somebody

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right now but if you you're gonna put

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something forth like that I actually

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think that you do have an accountability

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to cite it because what you're talking

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about is profoundly dangerous rhetoric

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for the community it's really really

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dangerous yeah you do but just to be

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clear so you absolutely believe born

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this way yes okay I absolutely do but as

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a person but somebody who is you know

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I've been working with trans folks in

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families for well over ten years I have

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at least a thousand people that I've

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worked with and each individual persons

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experience is unique but or and there

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are absolutely commonalities there's

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absolutely threads that run run through

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people across the age band who have

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gender dysphoria and and it would it

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would be irresponsible for me to to not

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sort of acknowledge of like wow look at

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the theme that runs through those

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thousands people and my colleagues and

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professionals it's all over the world

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doing this work and and you get a group

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of us at the table and we're all gonna

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be able to identify the themes that they

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run through the experiences of people

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with gender disorder how it shows up is

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gonna be individual but there's less and

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I want to talk more about that because

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you're far more expert than me there's

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no doubt about that but I do want to go

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back to this point but that you saying

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me making that statement that you know

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it could be nature and nurture is

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dangerous because what I believe is that

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simply because you're not born this way

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doesn't mean that's a person should not

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be loved respected accepted not

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discriminated against there seems to be

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the

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you're boring this way or it was a

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choice but let me just finish sorry that

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you're the born that's where there's a

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choice

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Michael wait a minute I'm not saying

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it's a choice

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I don't think gays choose to be gay and

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I don't think trans people choose to be

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trans but I'm not convinced that you're

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born this way I think it's very possible

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that there could be something that

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happens either in the room or at a very

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young age or what have you that that

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affects things that could affects the

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sexual identity could affect sexual

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orientation and so you know and maybe it

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causes changes to the brain but it

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happens that such an early age that no

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it's not a choice so that could be

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correct I want to separate out things

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that people don't like to hear because

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they want to be fully accepted to say

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born this way from just finding out the

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truth you know my shows about trying to

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find the truth and just to finish my

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point I I think absolutely trans and

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gays should be loved accepted everything

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else whether you're born this way or

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whether it happens at early childhood

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makes no difference to me

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may not make difference to you but it

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actually makes a huge difference to a

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lot of folks but it's um well should or

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should well we can spend a lot of time

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we shouldn't over all the truth be the

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most important thing but the truth is

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subjective you're trying to put forth

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the truth that I don't share that I

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don't agree with and so whose truth are

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we talking well I don't think truth is

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subjective I think and we're not gonna

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figure it out today and I'm not saying

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that I'm right and I know you're not

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saying that you're right because neither

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of us as we sit here today know but

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truth is the truth I mean bottom line is

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for any particular individual and maybe

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more broadly there is some reason why

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you are trans we don't know what that is

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it could be some wiring in the brain it

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could be DNA it could be something that

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happened but what happened did something

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happened to you have you spent any time

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or energy of you engage in a

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conversation with anyone that requires

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you or forced you to think about the

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origin why you are not trans well we

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could go to evolution and say buddy you

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get evolution and I don't well you're

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you're being trans as an exception if

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we're gonna do evolution because if

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people were trade that evolution

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wouldn't have gone the way it did right

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so no that's based on the premise that

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people are not procreating like trans

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folks are not carrying children having

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children

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because of modern medicine

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no but it transpeople when having

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children as carrying children

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genetically contributing to children for

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for a long long long time along okay let

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me let me ask gender dysphoria which

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used to be called gender identity

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disorder and they change it because they

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say that's not a disorder but bottom

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line is gender dysphoria is something

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that requires treatment people don't in

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a happy manner generally live with

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gender dysphoria typically it's treated

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and ultimately one of the cheers may be

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transition but it is something that

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needs to be treated and how it should be

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treated I think is an important question

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and what is the cause of it you need to

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know what the cause of it is before you

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can agree you don't need to know the

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cause of it no there's a million things

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that we provide treatment for that we

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don't know the cause of there's so many

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things that we medically that

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psychologically that we don't spend time

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and energy looking at causation what we

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say is like oh this is a place in which

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you are struggling this is a place in

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which you need support this is a place

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in you eat in which you need

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intervention and so with that's the

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starting point and we figure out how to

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maximize the quality of that person's

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life we actually don't know the

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causation for a tremendous amount of

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things that people seek medical and

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mental health care for well but all the

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better if you do know because then you

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would know you'd be wasting your time

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with certain treatments right so Bette

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better to know so for instance if you're

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born this way and somebody comes to you

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and says gee I'd like to get counseling

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to not be trans you preserve all gee

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Johnny you're born trans so the best

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thing for you to do is to follow this

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course and not this is such a narrative

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reduced that's just that's just not how

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people practice well because we don't

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know the answer right now okay we're

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we're not gonna agree and they're going

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down a bit of a rabbit hole yeah and so

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I think that may be like is there

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something else we can move on to because

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this is not something that's I don't

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feel like you you you had somebody else

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on the show you have whatever sort of

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personal interactions or experience

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you've had with the trans community and

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and the reality is is like you have your

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perspective you have your opinions and

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you have your probably very narrow data

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base that you're that you're sort of

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speaking from and and I'm not saying

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that this database that you have is not

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accurately represented from

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this perspective it may be a hundred

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percent actually represented from the

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folks in the community in the access

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points that you have it happens to not

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be a accurate representation of the data

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set well I am so just go ahead and share

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with me your data set and your feelings

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what you've learned from living this

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much longer than I have I mean I'll say

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this many times you are the expert I'm

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not the expert I'm I'm coming from a

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layman's perspective trying to

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understand something and help an

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audience understand something but share

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with me please you know what you've

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learned through the through your

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practice what I feel like I already have

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like the the the reality is is that when

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when we look at understanding where

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generalize any lives for people there is

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sort of within the professional and

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scientific community there's a general

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understanding that it lives somewhere in

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the brain we don't know where but we

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sort of have this like understanding

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universal understanding because when we

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look at the overall numbers of people

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who are not trans we just have the basic

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assumption that lives somewhere in the

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brain

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identity in general sexuality gender

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identity lives in the brain right and if

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you're not trans like we all just sort

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of happily go along and accept that to

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be true if you're trans and not so much

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now but definitely back in the day if

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you were anything other than

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heterosexual then there was dialogue of

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like well what caused this and where

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does this live and what gene does this

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live on in the DNA and and we spend a

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lot of time and energy there and and

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thankfully we've moved largely moved

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away from that's not valuable

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that's actually not valuable it's not

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helpful if somebody comes in and they

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have gender dysphoria they themselves

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like some people go through a process in

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the coming in where they're like what's

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the orient of the origin of this like

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what's happening but most people find

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pretty quickly there's no value there's

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no value for them I'm not so I don't

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think that there's a lot of value for

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there to be a tremendous amount of

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dollars and time and energy spent

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researching that question when the

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reality is is like like if people need

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care they need care it doesn't really

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matter where or why or how but if people

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need care they need care and for some

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folks that care is going to be

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transition for other folks that care

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will not be transition and if you are a

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good ethical provider you're creating

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space for both and all of the

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there's scenarios that I haven't talked

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about if you enjoyed that part of the

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interview listen to the entire interview

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on the hidden truth show podcast where

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ever you listen to podcasts I'm Jim